• View topic - internet licence Viewers who watch TV on computer charged

slenderkitten · **Joined:** Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:52 pm **Posts:** 393

The internet licence fee: Viewers who watch TV on computer could be charged from next year, hints minister

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... ister.html

Quote:

Viewers who watch television on their computer could be forced to pay the licence fee as early as next year.

Those who do not own a TV but watch programmes on services such as the BBC's iPlayer do not have to pay the £145.50 annual charge.

But Culture Secretary Jeremy Hunt yesterday hinted that this exemption could be stopped.

The Tory MP revealed that he plans to discuss the issue with BBC Director General Mark Thompson when the corporation's funding levels come up for review next year.

It follows growing evidence that more television viewers are turning to online servies to watch their favourite programmes.

The BBC's technology chief Erik Huggers recently expressed concern that some viewers are getting 'a free ride' by watching its shows on the internet rather than on television.

But Mr Hunt said he would not be in favour of simply charging anyone who owned a computer in the same way that anyone who owns a TV has to pay the licence fee.

Speaking on BBC1's Andrew Marr show yesterday, he said: 'What we have said very clearly is that we accept the principle of the licence fee which is the idea, if you like, of a household tax to fund public service broadcasting that is ring-fenced.

'We think one of the reasons we have some of the best television and broadcasting in the world in this country is because we have these different streams of income, including the licence fee, including subscription income and including advertising.

'Now, the way we collect it may have to be rethought because technology is changing. A lot of people are watching TV on their PCs.

'We are not going to introduce a PC licence fee. That is something [about which] I do need to have discussions with the BBC to see what their ideas are.'

Asked about changes in the price of the licence fee, he added: 'We haven't had any discussion at all about the level of the licence fee, that's something we'll be doing next year.'

A review by the BBC's governing body, the BBC Trust, revealed 40 per cent of students in halls of residence use a laptop as their main way to watch TV.

It admitted that some viewers might 'forgo live television entirely' by watching catch-up services.

The iPlayer makes shows available for seven days after they were broadcast.

A spokesman for the TaxPayers' Alliance described the licence fee as 'increasingly outdated'.

'The Government should be looking for a source of funding that means fewer people are charged for programmes they don't watch or listen to,' the spokesman said.

'The first step should be to cut the licence fee and force the BBC to start operating more efficiently and cutting back on the bloated bureaucracy that consumes too much of its resources.'

merseyswimmer · **Posted:** Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:57 pm

Surely it'd be simpler to stop making TV programmes available on-line - whether live or "catch-up"? And what about those who watch overseas?

Sounds just like an attempt to widen the definition of a "TV receiver" and/or justify the imposition an "Internet Tax". Given how most domestic users connect via an ISP and have dynamic IP addresses, how are the BBC going to prove that one was watching their programmes? If this nonsense comes to fruition I can see thousands giving up broadband and going back to dial-up. Anyway we can all resort to the old fashioned method of "catch-up TV" - have a licenced friend record the programme we want to watch. There are still thousands of VCRs still in use - I've got mine and now that my area is digital only an old analogue TV to use with it would cost peanuts.

So much for the Condemn Coalition being a breath of fresh air after ZaNuLiebour.

Shady Pete

cctvuser · **Joined:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:29 pm **Posts:** 108

That would look great on TVL, to explain to those who think an IP address is a 100% sure way of trapping someone for an infringement; they accuse someone at No 20 of streaming Eastbenders at IP 20.01.01.1 at 8pm, problem is at 7:30 they disconnected and reconnected with IP 20.01.2.00, and the IP they relinquished was allocated then to no 25 who have a licence, and they were streaming Eastbenders, not No 20 who don't have a TV, but were on Steam playing Counterstrike at that time. Given the average woeful broadband speeds, if everyone tried to stream live TV over the 'net, the whole nation would be viewing a slideshow called mucho buffering, as the net fell over. So when the tame magistrates convict, and No 20 appeal due to them being some badass civil liberties guru, quoting precedents from various cases where Media firms have lost on IP address evidence, being invalid due to most people having dynamically allocated IPs as stated previously, and evidence from the ISP shows that they weren't using that IP at the time (this assumes the ISP even bother to retain data on the realtime allocation of IP addresses) and WIN the whole thing exposes the total sham that is TV Licensing and the immoral TV Tax. Well we can hope! This is even before you go into masking identities and proxy servers, making the user virtually untraceble anyway, or wardrivers connecting to insecure wireless networks and streaming the data.

Watchkeeper · **Joined:** Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:49 pm **Posts:** 51

cctvuser wrote:

Given the average woeful broadband speeds, if everyone tried to stream live TV over the 'net, the whole nation would be viewing a slideshow called mucho buffering, as the net fell over.

Sheer poetry!

:mrgreen:

cctvuser · **Joined:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:29 pm **Posts:** 108

Watchkeeper wrote:

cctvuser wrote:

Given the average woeful broadband speeds, if everyone tried to stream live TV over the 'net, the whole nation would be viewing a slideshow called mucho buffering, as the net fell over.

Sheer poetry!

:mrgreen:

Thanks Watchkeeper Perhaps i should copyright the term, as the BBC may pinch it as a title for a mind numbing soap about a bunch of itinerant train spotters, as they fail to understand the techie IT context of the term buffering in streaming media content.

Uncle Beeb · **Posted:** Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:31 pm

I'm not paying now, and if they change the rules, I won't be paying then, either ! TVL can't prove I'm watching TV on my TV. To "catch" me they would have to get me to own up, or to let them in my house. Which there is zero chance thereof. They wouldn't be able to prove that I was watching TV on my computer either, unless they got me to own up, or let them in the my house. Where does this get us ? Hopefully it will cause more people to question and challenge the licence fee.

Gerald · **Joined:** Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:25 pm **Posts:** 493

The developments are taking place that broadband internet will become taxed for TV reception. It all seems to be happening just at the right time for the BBC to negotiate the TV licence fee.

The TV licence fee is to be negotiated next year for 2012 onwards. Project Canvas (YouView) equipment will be available in the first half of next year to add to the internet being used for TV purposes. The BBC already has iPlayer loading the internet, and Youview, spearheaded by the BBC, will put enormous pressure on broadband internet.

Jeremy Hunt has already mentioned using some of the TV licence fee for subsidising broadband infrastructure improvement. The BBC will argue for a TV licence fee increase to cover this, plus it will connect the TV licence fee with broadband internet now being used for TV.

The existing legislation won't even have to be changed. A YouView set top box or YouView-integrated TV set will mean that you have to pay the TV licence fee. In the course of time, the legislation will be changed to merge broadcast and broadband internet as TV licensable, with the BBC getting most of the licence fee money.

It really needs people to abandon the TV licence now to get the message across that the BBC shouldn't be funded in this way. The case against the TV licence fee will become more difficult as it gets tied in with internet use.

cctvuser · **Joined:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:29 pm **Posts:** 108

The real problem for the BBC is that as real world broadband connection speeds are so lw, there is no rweal option for many to stream programmes anyway, unless they watch mucho buffering.

slenderkitten · **Joined:** Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:52 pm **Posts:** 393

I dont give a damn my internet is for MY use not BBC they can go to hell, i wil not have them HIJACK my service to pay for their CRAP!!

emgee · **Posted:** Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:59 pm

cctvuser wrote:

The real problem for the BBC is that as real world broadband connection speeds are so lw, there is no rweal option for many to stream programmes anyway, unless they watch mucho buffering.

A very good point that this country is a long way away from broadband speeds and bandwidth that could deliver reliable steamed TV (unlike, e.g., South Korea), however, we should not underestimate the Beeb's Instinct For Self-Preservation. No matter how much the Beeb might like an internet TV tax, it is, in the short-to-medium term unlikely - even they will realise this.

I suspect they might go for a TV tax incorporated in Council Tax charges, using a system of revenue collection which is already in place.

This would, in their view, enabling a more cost effective TV Tax gathering system than the existing one.

I suspect such a system would only allow an opt out for genuinely TV free people (like me) if authenticated by a 'Visit from our enforcement officers to confirm the situation'. Such a situation would be more intolerable and intrusive than the present one.

m.shakey · **Posted:** Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:01 am

Quote:

It really needs people to abandon the TV licence now to get the message across that the BBC shouldn't be funded in this way. The case against the TV licence fee will become more difficult as it gets tied in with internet use.

Well said. +::bravo:

The problem is how to get people to do this ?
If we allow a slow 'transition' into the next form of taxation, then we're fooked.
We need mass non-payment NOW.

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