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TVL Detector
http://www.tvlicensing.biz/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2778		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  administrator [ Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:06 pm ]
Post subject:  TVL Detector
In the process of revamping the BBCresistance.com website I was thinking of adding an online application, which, with the help of visitors, keeps track of the whereabouts of TVL enforcement staff and TV detector vans.

I am thinking down the lines of people entering the postcode of the area where TVL has been spotted; this is then translated to a map (google maps).

Over time we'll have a map, which shows the movements of TVL enforcement staff and maybe even allows for forecasts on where the next knock on the door will be.

The thing to look out for is fake entries, which are hard to avoid, however, since the application could trace the IP address of the submitter, it can filter submissions of different postcodes made by the same submitter (ie same IP address).

The reliability really depends on how many people participate. Assuming the vast number of visitors are against TV Licensing I expect the application could work ...

Any thoughts ? ... anyone?

Erik Oostveen
Webmaster BBCresistance.com
Author:  Gerald [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: TVL Detector
administrator wrote:
The thing to look out for is fake entries, which are hard to avoid, however, since the application could trace the IP address of the submitter, it can filter submissions of different postcodes made by the same submitter (ie same IP address).

If the data is supplied by visitors who don't register, how does this form of security work where a person is assigned a different IP address every time he/she logs onto his/her ISP?

I doubt if there will be many sightings of detector vans being used for real; there's been one sighting reported on the old forum; these vans do not have their "TV Licensing" markings on them when they are used for real. See below.

Image
Author:  Puffball [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: TVL Detector
Seems like a lot of hard work, Erik, especially when we know that the "detector vans" are mainly or entirely used for propaganda. The salient point is that evidence from electronic detection has never been used in court; thus the vans are an irrelevance. Maybe a sticky thread called "I've Just Seen a Van!" would be good enough.
Author:  gestapo [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TVL Detector
Tell what you should do - keep a database of people who've vowed to, when the signal comes, stop paying their license (or continue nonpayment if they're not paying already!) You could have a signup form on the site or something and people don't need to give their address, just a promise that they will not pay when the signal comes. Then once there's maybe 10 or 20,000 on the list, send out an email to that list and post on this forum that next month, we all stop paying. Might hurt them a bit more all doing at once than a few people now and then. :)
Author:  huttonwhitewash [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TVL Detector
Erik
Perhaps just if you have had a visit from TVL/Capita in the last 24 hours would be a better Idea? Just with the first 4 digits of your postcode....you do not want to tell TVL who are monitoring this forum, too much! But it would be of assistance to others I'm sure!
The official answer if asked why you are doing this: "there are many fake officials trying to con their way into people's homes, this would confirm that GENUINE TVL/Capita people are in your area! & so you can react approapriatly!"
I have resisted putting an "R" in Capita....do I get a prize?
L.H.
Author:  TVLRegister [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TVL Detector
I would rather you use your effort to provide a one-pager on the truth of TV licence and dispel the widely held myths including:

1. you must have a TV licence if you have a TV.
2. TVL can detect your TV anywhere in your room.
3. you must let TVL officers into your house and respond to their questions.
4. you must respond to TVL letters.
Author:  administrator [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TVL Detector
Thanks for the feedback.

Gerald; I spotted this TV Detection Van last Dec '07, which was the day after I got a knock on the door:

Image

In terms of security I could build in a mechanism that sends out an email to the person submitting a postcode; the location of where TVL has been spotted is highlighted only after clicking a confirmation link on the email sent out by the application.

Some IP addresses such as TVL/BBC are fixed IP addresses, which can easily be filtered.

Puffball; The BBCresistance website exists to inform visitors about the TVL. In order to raise our profile on the net we have to embrace API features of other high profiled websites such as Google(maps). TV detection vans are a myth but rather saying 'they are a myth' it's better (I think) to fight back by for example provide a free tool to take away the TVL's element of surprise. A posting on the forum is good but mapping TVL's whereabouts is better.

Gestapo; Good idea ... something I could implement on the petition form.

huttonwhitewash; I'm not sure if I understand what you are trying to suggest ...

TVLRegister; The revamped version of the website will have a lot of the information condensed - fair comment.

Erik





What better than to take the element of surprise away? People who are pre-warned are better prepared to dealing with TVL staff knocking on their door.
Author:  TVLRegister [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TVL Detector
Erik, thanks - just to clarify, my post wasn't to knock this site down. The detection van is also a good idea (like icing on the cake) but to me the fundamentals should be addressed first (which I see from your post they definitely will be). If we can improve the ease and efficiency in getting the right information in front of the public (via stickied thread, FAQ, some guide, or others), people will be smart enough to deal with TVL.
Author:  stokewhites [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TVL Detector
count me in

roughly, a visit occurs 14-20 days after a letter

keeping stats of your monthly letter and unknown door knockers, may be useful
Author:  MatthewD [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TVL Detector
Over time, the map would show where TVL operate, where the concentrations are.

Is it possible for the map to include colour-coding? Enforcement officers could be one colour (perhaps darker shades for multiple visits), and detector vans another colour

Some sort of indication could made of the different types of premises targeted, or locations of vans (e.g. supermarkets)

I think Puffball’s “I’ve seen a van!” idea is good; if we treat them too seriously, there is a risk they will be taken seriously.

The map would not only accumulate data but would generate involvement from visitors to the website. People will not only learn, but feel they are contributing and fighting back

I have taken the liberty of adding Erik’s van sighting to this page:
http://www.bbctvlicence.com/Detect%20th ... 20vans.htm

I have provided a link back to this thread
Author:  xexsese [ Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TVL Detector
Ive a slight problem with this thread as im a radio engineer who worked on secret equipment for the interception of radio and radar traffic (electronic warfare). As already stated in this forum they dont use evidence of detection as evidence in court.
Why?
Because a technical expert could make mincemeat of there evidence.
I had problems with the claim they could tell which flat had a tv on in a block of flats(Bloody AMAZING) It works if he entire block was all not watching except for the subject flat.
But to differentiate a single flat from a mass of cointerferance signals in such a location is a impossibility.
Plus the detector vans would with significant errors have worked in the era of old televisions but once digital came on the scene its a load of tosh.
IT CANT DETECT DIGITAL , it will possible detect a television is working at your address or a computer monitor . But it cant tell what channel your on or if your playing a video or a CD or a DVD or downloading on the net.
They have to gain entrance to your house and find you actually recieving a programme that you need a licence for.

If you note they are arguing for a licence for all computers . This is because of this its there weak spot as they cant detect digital. And whats the world going DIGITAL.
Its why they are pushing there digital services and also the DOPWNLOAD at any time.
ITs to cover themselves in the future as when they ask for the licence fee to cover computers and all broadcasts instead of just as now LIVE broadcasts.
THey intend to have us licenced for watching anything from anyone anytinme on a television. Thats what all there drive at digital pod casts are about.
They want total licence control of us seeing anything.
Author:  administrator [ Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TVL Detector
Hi xexsese,

I think you may have misread the title of the posting; it's 'TVL Detector' not 'TV Detector';

What I am looking for is input regarding a potential online tool, which allows visitors to report sighting of TVL staff or a TV Van Detector (which implies TVL is targetting the area). The sightings can be plotted on a UK map so we can keep track of where TVL staff is hanging out - and by doing so taking away the element of surprise.

I find your work-history interesting. You worked as a radio engineer right? Let me ask you a question: would you be able to tell wheter a TV is switched on using a spectrum analyser? (the analyser would be in the same room right next to the TV). I am asking becasue I am interested in finding out whether you can spot the intermediate oscillator frequency of the TV.

Erik Oostveen
Webmaster - BBCresistance.com
Author:  huttonwhitewash [ Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TVL Detector
Yes Erik, warning that either their vans, or TVL Bods (it means the same thing) are in a certain area, would be a great idea. +::bravo:
Author:  diasan [ Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TVL Detector
administrator wrote:
Let me ask you a question: would you be able to tell wheter a TV is switched on using a spectrum analyser? (the analyser would be in the same room right next to the TV). I am asking becasue I am interested in finding out whether you can spot the intermediate oscillator frequency of the TV.


It depends. Are you asking about the IF (post mixing), or the LO used to mix the input with.

If one was to connect the antenna socket of the TV to the input of the spectrum analyser with a cable, then possibly.
No filter is perfect, and some leakage of the IF may be possible. I have seen the IF from other (non TV) receivers on an analyser this way.

Leakage of the LO is probably more likely than leakage of the IF.

This all assumes classic superhet type rcvr with an analog IF.

What is more interesting is the possibility of direct conversion digital receivers. I'm not sure if any are being commercially produced yet, but they (in theory) would have the possibility of not leaking. Some of the USB 'key fob' TV receivers look interesting, as they seem too small to hold the usual shielded analog mixing design.

I'd expect an 'all digital' receiver to look something like:

antenna -> SAW filter -> DSP -> digital output.

There being no real LO as such, just the DSP doing the mixing stage in software.
Author:  Gerald [ Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TVL Detector
diasan wrote:
Leakage of the LO is probably more likely than leakage of the IF.
Do you know why this should be?
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